Human Rights: Conversations Across Generations

Professor Mark Godsey: The Ohio Innocence Project and the Human Cost of Injustice

Professor Mark Godsey has spent his career confronting one of the most profound human rights failures within the legal system: the incarceration of innocent people.
A former federal prosecutor and longtime professor at the University of Cincinnati College of Law, Mark is the co-founder and director of the Ohio Innocence Project, one of the nation’s leading innocence organizations. Through his work alongside students and legal advocates, he has helped secure freedom for individuals who collectively lost more than 900 years of their lives to imprisonment for crimes they did not commit.
In this powerful conversation, Mark reflects on his transformation from prosecutor to advocate, the systemic forces that contribute to wrongful convictions, and the urgent need for reform. He also shares how storytelling, including his book Blind Justice and the opera Blind Injustice, has helped bring national attention to the human cost of injustice.
This episode offers a profound look at justice, accountability, and the role each of us can play in protecting fundamental human rights.
Show Notes
Show Transcript PDF: available here
This episode was recorded in mid-2025. We encourage listeners to support the ongoing work of the Ohio Innocence Project and organizations nationwide dedicated to defending the rights of innocent individuals.
Professor Mark Godsey: Faculty Profile, University of Cincinnati College of Law
Author, Blind Justice: A Former Prosecutor Exposes the Psychology and Politics of Wrongful Convictions
Ohio Innocence Project
Learn more and donate: https://foundation.uc.edu/OIP
Ohio Innocence Project 20th Anniversary Video
Innocence Project (National)
Blind Injustice Opera: A groundbreaking opera based on the stories of Ohio Innocence Project exonerees
Articles and Media Coverage
The New Yorker: “An Opera for the Wrongfully Convicted”
The New York Times: “‘Blind Injustice,’ an Opera Inspired by Exonerees”
 
 

Leah Watson: ACLU Senior Staff Attorney, Racial Justice Program

In this powerful multigenerational conversation, we are honored to welcome our dear friend and civil rights attorney Leah Watson, whose work at the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) places her at the forefront of defending constitutional rights and advancing racial justice across the United States. Leah’s advocacy focuses on protecting freedom in education, challenging classroom censorship, and confronting systemic inequities embedded within our legal and social systems.
Leah’s path to this work reflects both excellence and intention. After studying at Vanderbilt University and earning her law degree from Harvard Law School, she began her career in corporate litigation before making the decision to dedicate her legal expertise to public interest law. Her work now addresses some of the most urgent civil rights issues of our time, including anti-DEI legislation, racial disparities in education and healthcare, and the protection of free expression.
This conversation also explores the personal experiences that shape Leah’s commitment to justice. Raised by two physicians and deeply influenced by family, mentorship, and lived experience, Leah brings both intellectual rigor and profound humanity to her work. Her integrity, clarity of purpose, and unwavering dedication to justice have been a meaningful source of inspiration in my own life.
This conversation offers both timely insight and enduring perspective on the ongoing struggle for civil rights. Leah’s story reminds us that the work of justice is carried forward through personal commitment and grows through collective action.
Show Notes
This episode was recorded in 2025, and we encourage listeners to support the ACLU’s ongoing work defending fundamental rights. You can learn more and donate here: ACLU Donate Page
Show Transcript PDF: available here
Books, Articles, and Academic References
Leah Watson: “The Anti-‘Critical Race Theory’ Campaign: Classroom Censorship and Racial Backlash by Another Name”
Leah Watson: “We Have to Reclaim Race and Racism” (ACLU)
Deborah Archer: President of the ACLU, her book, Dividing Lines: How Transportation Infrastructure Reinforces Racial Inequality
Aryeh Neier: Taking Liberties: Four Decades in the Struggle for Human Rights
New Kid by Jerry Craft
Paul Castle, author and illustrator
Pringle & Finn (The Pengrooms) by Paul Castle
Human Rights Quarterly (HRQ) — A leading academic journal focused on human rights law, policy, and practice worldwide
People and Organizations Mentioned
James McClure: South African journalist and novelist (1939–2006) best known for his Kramer and Zondi detective series, which examined the realities of apartheid-era South Africa through crime fiction and explored themes of race, justice, and inequality. Author page: https://sohopress.com/authors/james-mcclure/

Bill Schabas: Genocide, International Justice, and the Fight Against Impunity

Today, we welcome Professor Bill Schabas, one of the world's foremost scholars of international criminal law and genocide, joining us from his farmhouse in France. Bill has devoted his career to defining, investigating, and prosecuting mass atrocity crimes. He served with the tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda, advised the International Criminal Court, and chaired the United Nations Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict.
He is the author of Genocide in International Law, now in its third edition, a foundational text that has shaped how the international community understands and responds to genocide. His work spans from the abolition of the death penalty to uncovering the racial dimensions of warfare, including groundbreaking research into the treatment of African troops during the World Wars.
In this conversation, my dad and I reflect on shared memories with Bill, including a cherished evening in his Galway kitchen that brought together Sister Helen Prejean and Ireland's future president, Michael D. Higgins. We discuss his lifetime of scholarship and public service, the role of student activism in advancing human rights, and the critical challenges facing international institutions in our current political moment.
Bill reminds us that personal relationships and intimate gatherings often sit quietly behind the most important public work, and that rigorous scholarship must always serve the pursuit of justice.
SHOW NOTES:
Episode Transcript: Full transcript (PDF) available here.
Further Reading & Viewing:
Genocide in International Law by William Schabas (3rd edition)
In Memoriam by Alice Winn (novel about WWI)
Dead Man Walking
Sister: Documentary film about Sister Helen
Organizations & Resources
Musicians for Human Rights
University of Galway (formerly National University of Ireland, Galway): Irish Centre for Human Rights

Jewher Ilham: Uyghur Rights and Her Father, Professor Ilham Tohti

Jewher Ilham joins us for a powerful conversation about family, justice, and the cost of repression. She is a Uyghur human rights advocate and the daughter of Ilham Tohti, an economist and professor who dedicated his life to peaceful dialogue and advocacy for the Uyghur community and was later unjustly sentenced to life in prison by the Chinese government. As a father-daughter podcast, this conversation carries particular meaning, centering the enduring bond between parent and child in the face of forced separation.
In this episode, Jewher reflects on her relationship with her father, the moment her life changed, and the lasting impact of his imprisonment on her family and community. She speaks about identity, cultural erasure, and the responsibility of bearing witness when voices are silenced.
We discuss the documentary All Static & Noise, which tells Jewher’s story and examines the personal and political consequences of her father’s imprisonment and the broader repression of Uyghur communities. As of today, February 7, All Static & Noise is available to stream on Apple TV and Amazon Prime. Jewher also shares her work with the Worker Rights Consortium, where she focuses on forced labor and accountability within global supply chains connected to the Uyghur Region.
SHOW NOTES
Transcript, a full PDF transcript of this episode is available.
All Static & Noise, available on Apple TV & Amazon Prime starting February 7th, 2026
Worker Rights Consortium 
2025 College Freedom Forum, Tufts University - Jewher’s Speech
Tibet in Song - Documentary
 

Roger Clark: International Criminal Law and Human Rights Accountability

In this first episode of 2026, Human Rights: Conversations Across Generations, we welcome Professor Roger Clark, one of the world’s leading figures in international criminal law and human rights.
Over a distinguished career that included more than four decades teaching at Rutgers University Law School, Professor Clark educated generations of lawyers while contributing directly to the development of international legal institutions. His work has shaped how the global community understands crimes against humanity, accountability, and the role of mechanisms such as the International Criminal Court in pursuing justice.
Recorded about a year ago, this conversation remains strikingly timely. Professor Clark reflects on the evolution of international criminal law, the promise and limitations of the ICC, nuclear weapons and environmental justice, student protest movements past and present, and the growing challenges facing the international human rights system.
The episode also captures a deeply personal dimension. To date, Roger Clark and Bert Lockwood have celebrated fifty-four years of friendship, a relationship that has grown alongside the evolution of modern international human rights law. Their shared history offers a rare window into the people, ideas, and institutions that have shaped the field over the last half-century.
Show Notes
Episode Transcript
A full PDF transcript of this episode is available here:https://www.fireonthebluff.com/sites/fireonthebluff.com/files/HRP_Roger_Clark_Episode_final.pdf
People Referenced
Theo van BovenDutch human rights pioneer and former UN Special Rapporteur, instrumental in advancing international accountability for gross human rights violations.
Mohamed ElBaradeiFormer Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency and Nobel Peace Prize laureate for his work on nuclear nonproliferation.
Toine van DongenDutch diplomat and international legal scholar with long-standing contributions to international law and human rights.
Related Publications
Cees Flinterman: PublicationsChanging Perceptions of Sovereignty and Human RightsLiber Amicorum, co-edited scholarly volume.
Innovation and Inspiration: Fifty Years of the Universal Declaration of Human RightsCo-edited scholarly volume examining the evolution and impact of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Places Recommended
Soeboer Indonesian Restaurant, The Haguehttps://www.soeboer.nl/
Contact
If you have suggestions for future guests or topics, we would love to hear from you.Email: humanrightsconversations@gmail.comWebsite: www.meredithlockwood.com

Cees Flinterman: Friendship, Diplomacy, and the Practice of Human Rights

In this episode of Human Rights: Conversations Across Generations, we are honored to welcome Professor Cees Flinterman, one of the most respected figures in international human rights law and one of Professor Bert Lockwood’s oldest friends and collaborators. Their friendship began in 1970 while studying in the graduate law program at the University of Virginia, an experience that helped shape parallel careers devoted to building human rights institutions, education, and global norms.
Cees reflects on a career that spans academia, diplomacy, and international human rights bodies. He shares formative experiences teaching and working in Ghana during a period of military rule, contributing to the Netherlands’ first human rights–centered foreign policy, and serving as head of delegation to the UN Commission on Human Rights and the World Conference on Human Rights in Vienna. Throughout the conversation, he emphasizes the practical realities of implementing human rights in complex political contexts.
The discussion also explores Cees’s work with UN treaty bodies, including his service on the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women and the UN Human Rights Committee, as well as his collaboration with figures such as Theo van Boven and Nigel Rodley. From drafting early resolutions on China and Tibet to advancing economic, social, and cultural rights, Cees offers rare insight into how international human rights norms are built, defended, and sustained over time.
At its heart, this episode is a reflection on friendship, institutional memory, and the long arc of legal change. Through personal stories and global experience, Cees reminds us why optimism, persistence, and human connection remain essential to the practice of human rights.
SHOW NOTES
Holiday Programming NoteWe will be taking a brief two-week break for the holiday season. Our next episode of Human Rights: Conversations Across Generations will be released on January 9, 2026. We wish our listeners and community a warm and restful holiday season.
 
Cees Flinterman’s PublicationsProfessor Flinterman has co-edited and contributed to major works in international human rights law, including Changing Perceptions of Sovereignty and Human Rights: Essays in Honour of Cees Flinterman, edited by Ineke Boerefijn and J. E. Goldschmidt, and Innovation and Inspiration: Fifty Years of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, co-edited with Peter R. Baehr and Mignon Sender
Toine van DongenToine van Dongen was a Dutch human rights lawyer and advocate whose work focused on equality, non-discrimination, and the practical application of human rights law in the Netherlands and internationally.
Mohamed ElBaradeiMohamed ElBaradei is an Egyptian lawyer and diplomat who served as Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency and was jointly awarded the 2005 Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to prevent the use of nuclear energy for military purposes and to promote peaceful nuclear cooperation.
Theo van BovenTheo van Boven is an emeritus professor of international law and human rights whose leadership within the United Nations and Dutch foreign policy helped advance accountability for torture and other gross human rights violations.
Soeboer Indonesian Restaurant, The HagueSoeboer is an Indonesian restaurant in The Hague referenced in the episode.

Professor Rebecca J. Cook: Advancing Women’s Rights and Reproductive Health

We are honored to welcome Professor Rebecca J. Cook, a pioneering scholar whose work has transformed women’s human rights and reproductive justice around the world. Rebecca has also been a close friend of our family for more than thirty years, first connecting with my father, Professor Bert B. Lockwood, through her contributions to Human Rights Quarterly and the University of Pennsylvania Press human rights book series.
Rebecca’s early work in the 1970s at International Planned Parenthood exposed her to profound injustices faced by women who were denied access to contraception and abortion. Having survived polio the year the vaccine became available, she carried a deep sense of empathy into her work, recognizing how law and health shape human vulnerability. Her efforts helped broaden the human rights community’s understanding of reproductive autonomy, including early conversations with Sir Nigel Rodley about why women’s health belonged at the center of human rights advocacy.
As a professor at the University of Toronto, Rebecca helped build one of the world’s leading programs on women’s human rights, mentoring generations of students and advancing research on gender stereotyping, structural discrimination, and harmful practices such as polygyny. Her scholarship has influenced courts in countries like Indonesia and South Africa, shaped CEDAW’s interpretation of discriminatory norms, and guided international efforts to promote women’s dignity and equality.
In our conversation, Rebecca reflects on the experiences that shaped her path, the legal strategies that have proven most effective, and the work that remains to be done. Her insight, clarity, and humanity offer a powerful guide for anyone committed to advancing women’s rights in a complex and changing world.
 
SHOW NOTES
Western University: Rebecca Cook's SpeechStructural Discrimination: The Case of PolygynyWatch Video
Center for Reproductive RightsRebecca has worked closely with the Center for Reproductive Rights, helping develop legal strategies that advance reproductive autonomy worldwide.Support their work
Planned ParenthoodRebecca’s early advocacy began at International Planned Parenthood, where she confronted the profound injustices women faced in accessing essential reproductive health care.Donate now

Honoring Sir Nigel Rodley with Lyn Rodley

Today’s episode is a very special tribute to the life and legacy of our dear friend, and a true leader in international law, the late Sir Nigel Rodley. It is our privilege to be joined by his wife, and our close friend, Lyn Rodley.
Nigel’s remarkable journey began at New York University in the International Studies Department, where he studied alongside both of my parents. He went on to become a foundational figure at Amnesty International, leading the legal office for nearly two decades and shaping the organization’s campaign against torture during a pivotal era of human rights advocacy.
A distinguished academic and professor, Nigel co-founded the Human Rights Centre at the University of Essex, and devoted his life to teaching, mentoring, and supporting generations of students who would go on to play central roles in law, policy, and international institutions.
In this conversation, Lyn reflects on Nigel’s profound impact on the world of human rights, and on the people whose lives he touched. She brings forward the personal stories, the humor, and the moral clarity that defined him, while offering a window into the person behind a lifetime of public work. For our family, this episode is a tribute to a beloved friend, a colleague, and a leader who helped shape the modern human rights movement. We miss him dearly, and hold deep gratitude for the legacy he left behind.
Show Notes
Recording DateThis conversation was recorded in July 2024, which provides context for references to contemporary events, including the United States election and Brexit.
TranscriptCorrected transcript of conversation in PDF format.
“Peace through Reason”“Peace through Reason” is the piece of advice Lyn offers at the end of the episode. It captures what she believes animated Nigel’s approach to law and diplomacy, and why his thoughtful, principled method proved effective in advancing human rights.
Professor Tom FarerTom Farer was a renowned international law and human rights scholar who served as Dean of the Josef Korbel School of International Studies and wrote widely on global justice and humanitarian intervention. He passed away in March 2025, and his loss is deeply felt across the human rights world.
Professor Thomas M. FranckThomas M. Franck was a leading scholar of international law at NYU, and author of influential works on global governance, and human rights. He advised governments during periods of constitutional change, and served as president of the American Society of International Law.
Amnesty International Tribute to Sir Nigel RodleyAmnesty International published a tribute honoring Sir Nigel’s life, work, and global impact on human rights. You can read it here:https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/01/nigel-rodley-1941-2017/

A Conversation with Sister Helen Prejean

This week, we sit down with Sister Helen Prejean, one of the most influential moral leaders of our time and a guiding force in the movement to end the death penalty. For more than three decades, she has accompanied people on death row with dignity, supported families affected by violence, and challenged the nation to confront the human cost of state killing with honesty and compassion.
She joins us to celebrate the release of Dead Man Walking: Graphic Edition, a powerful new retelling created to reach younger readers, visual storytellers, and classrooms. This edition renews the impact of her work through art and narrative, and we talk with Sister Helen about why this moment matters, how storytelling opens hearts, and what continues to sustain her spirit after decades of courageous advocacy.
Our conversation explores her childhood in Baton Rouge during the Jim Crow era, her early formation as a young nun, and the unexpected letter in 1982 that set her on the path of accompanying people on death row. Sister Helen shares profound personal stories, reflects on the global landscape of state killing, and offers wisdom on courage, conscience, and the dignity at the center of every human life.
May this conversation strengthen our collective resolve to end the death penalty in every corner of the world.
 
SHOW NOTES
Episode Transcript PDF
Sister Helen’s Website: Learn more about her books, advocacy, and ongoing work.
Dead Man Walking: Graphic Edition: A new adaptation illustrated by Catherine Anyango Grünewald with a script by Rose Vines, created to reach new generations through visual storytelling.
SISTER Documentary
Rebel Nun Documentary
Calvin Duncan’s Book: The Jailhouse Lawyer: The remarkable story of a wrongfully convicted man who became a leading jailhouse lawyer and was recently elected Clerk of Criminal Court in New Orleans.
The Guardian Investigation on Saudi Arabia
Amnesty International Report on Executions in Saudi Arabia (2025)
Innocence Project
 

Championing Rights: The Honorable Unity Dow

In this episode of Human Rights: Conversations Across Generations, we are honored to welcome The Honorable Unity Dow, a trailblazing jurist, author, and human rights advocate from Botswana. Unity is also a cherished friend of the Institute and a long-standing partner of the Urban Morgan Institute for Human Rights. The Institute’s inaugural founder and director, Professor Bert Lockwood, supports the placement of UMI's law fellows in Mochudi, where they work directly with Unity and her community, continuing a collaboration that spans decades.
Our conversation reflects on Unity’s landmark citizenship case, now studied across the Commonwealth, and the ways her work has shaped constitutional and human rights development in Botswana and beyond. She shares insights from her diverse career, including her service as a judge, minister, parliamentarian, and educator dedicated to expanding opportunities for young people through the Dow Academy.
Unity offers thoughtful reflections on leadership, progress, and the responsibilities facing the next generation of advocates. Her voice is a powerful reminder that principled and community-rooted human rights work remains essential in today’s world.
Show Notes
Episode Transcript PDF
Unity Dow Website: https://unitydow.org/
The Dow Academy: https://thedowacademy.org/- To support the incredible work of The Dow Academy, please consider donating to their trust to continue empowering students in Botswana.